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03 May 2017 @ 01:37 pm
Organizational question  
This is the only scrambled world I'm going to follow in detail. But Disco is tracking down the other six, while trying to get Nuked One World and Nuked Earth to play nice (AKA not shoot civilians from each others worlds that got dumped i the middle of Paris or Nowhereistan) and build embassies on Embassy.

The other six worlds will involve rescuing people from the upper floors of buildings on the water world, failing to find survivors on the Dino World, starving and desperate people on the barren and algae worlds, and mixed friendship and hostilities on the two mining Worlds toward these Oners who dropped in from nowhere while destrying the main mine entrance.

Shall I toss in an occasional chapter from Disco, carrying out these rescues, or put it all (very briefly) in at the end.

The reason I'm thinkimg about putting it in is that _Mirror, Mirror_ starts with Disco and Ebsa investigating. I'll need to bring it back to that at the end. But would interludes help or break the narative? It's choppy enough as it is, with three POVs.
muirecanmuirecan on May 3rd, 2017 11:09 pm (UTC)
I think the interludes would help add a nice bit of weft to the story.
(Anonymous) on May 3rd, 2017 11:16 pm (UTC)
I think that a couple of judicious insertions would help tie the whole thing together, then final details added to the end. I believe that a periodic reinforcement of the point that these fragments come from alternative branches would help. Granted, we get more of that confusion due to the fragmentary nature of snippets, but I still think it might help the story hold together.

Btw, as far as I understand, the fragments that have been trapped in the spiral (and the societies that they come from) are all from branches that are directly caused by a nuke on top of a gate, instead of some other military mistake followed by voluntarily closing the gate. This includes branches of worlds that either were cut off from Warmonger Earth, or not cut off (possibly until later when CometFall action damaged the gate complex without exactly nuking an active gate)

So, since you're trying to tie this all into one story, I think you should intersperse the "outside rescue" fragments with the "self-rescue".

Another by the way. I think you might take some thought into a deeper explanation for the erratic gate behavior - I mean something cosmological beyond just a nuke happening on top of an active gate, such that it really *REALLY* can't happen again. That would give you added reinforcement to "just this once" for the alternative societies you're describing.

For ex, would the previously discussed threat of putting a Corridor in front of a moving train and pointing the other end at the side of a gate be likely to cause a similar instability if it happened when the gate was active? Would it explicitly take a nuke? What is it about a nuke that generates the problem, could it be caused by an EMP bomb instead, or just something really high temperature?

Sorry, way too much digression.

matapampamuphoff on May 4th, 2017 01:09 am (UTC)
The whirlpool was apparently caused by the nuclear weapon. Q's not sure why. Did the EMP jerk the two multiverses toward each other? Did the radiation cause a "hole" in the inbetween that's draining the area? Spinning like water down a drain?

It looks like worlds that the Nuked Earth managed to gate to have been pulled in, and trapped. From deeper down, the One World hasn't been able to successfully open a gate at all.

The earthquakes (which affect every world in the whirlpool)happen when Earth attempts to open a gate to One World, or the Oners' attempts to open a gate almost attach to Earth. The Earth has succeeded for brief moments, enough that they think they've found the oners--and of course they blame their problems with the gates and the earthquakes on One.

Ebsa blowing up the gate while it was open between the two world has disrupted the whirlpool. The shattering of the whirlpool caused the swapping of chunks and then the worlds all got tossed away. The remaining stormy conditions will be slowing the hunt for the missing people on various worlds.
James ResoldierJames Resoldier on May 5th, 2017 09:11 pm (UTC)
Nuclear/dimensional interactions
One thing to keep in mind is that nuclear explosions involve quite a bit of energy that is NOT standard EM radiation, and one may easily postulate that the bubbles, cones and (if I recall correctly) cylinders are linked to or affected by the quantum structure of the multiverse.

As a nuclear explosion does have some quantum effects, especially with the massive amount of EM created by the explosion, AND adding in the enormous magnetic field used in creating mechanical gates, I would be shocked if there wasn't some serious disturbance of the gate area, if the bomb went off while the gate was up, exposing the "edges" of the multiverse's layers.
matapampamuphoff on May 6th, 2017 02:07 am (UTC)
Re: Nuclear/dimensional interactions
I'm stealing this.
James ResoldierJames Resoldier on May 8th, 2017 04:13 pm (UTC)
Re: Nuclear/dimensional interactions
Glad I could help!
James ResoldierJames Resoldier on May 8th, 2017 04:41 pm (UTC)
Re: Nuclear/dimensional interactions
One other thing that I think you've already included, if not explicitly mentioned, is that the whirlpool pattern you showed on your April 15th post, if integrated with the missing chunks of the patterns that were left on the donor worlds, look to be an octal Fibonacci sequence superimposed on an eight pointed star pattern. Of course, the grasslands world (World 0) is the canvas that this is all being painted on.

Each "donor" world looks to have it's chunk of land showing up on the octal pattern right where the golden mean (Fibonacci spiral) hits the star, offset by 45 degrees for each donor world, of course.

Given your propensity for using significant numbers, I thought I'd point that out. Perhaps having Q figure out the pattern, helping her locate the spun off worlds you mentioned in another post.
matapampamuphoff on May 8th, 2017 06:19 pm (UTC)
Re: Nuclear/dimensional interactions
You guys are scary. You do realize I just sketched that out on Paint to keep it straight in my head, right?

And yes, I'm stealing this as well.
James ResoldierJames Resoldier on May 9th, 2017 10:31 pm (UTC)
Re: Nuclear/dimensional interactions
Sent you a marked up version of your scrambled map on FB messenger.
matapampamuphoff on May 10th, 2017 01:49 am (UTC)
Re: Nuclear/dimensional interactions
Ah, yes. Probably only works because of my large irregular patches. I wasn't particularly thinking of widening the spiral as the world's drifted outward.
James ResoldierJames Resoldier on May 10th, 2017 08:47 pm (UTC)
Re: Nuclear/dimensional interactions
TLDR - Postulation on the science behind scrambled world.

Dimensional effects, you said, were ended, by author's decree. Therefore, spiral won't widen.

A couple possible reasons for this, in character science:

Nuke only has so much energy. Will only affect out so far before effect dilutes.

Another idea for that (And currently my favorite) is simply the speed of light. Remember in Outcasts and Gods, Wolf timed the collapse of a gate, from when power was cut, to gate collapse. If I remember correctly, it was about half a second or so, which includes a controlled ramp-down of power. Figure that a nuke will collapse a gate in a tenth of a millisecond (100 microseconds as an alternate statement). How far out would the EM/Quantum effects of a nuclear blast actually travel in that time? Light travels just short of 30 kilometers in that time. The EM effects of the blast would be cut off once the gate collapsed, thus restricting the area of effect to that distance.

On thing this brings up is the really bad potential for BAD THINGS if a nuke were set off inside a Permanent gate. No power to disrupt. But consider that the cones, before they become gates, are spinning rapidly. and that mechanical gates tend to send them spinning off. The magic gates have been said, in canon, to be highly magnetic in nature, perhaps the EMP would be sufficient to collapse a magic gate even faster, minimizing the potential for evil.

As, mostly, the corridors seem to deal with mere translocation, rather than changes in energy state (aside from potential/positional energy from altitude/orbital changes), and the enormous power needed to initiate and sustain mechanical gates, you could even come up with a supposed formula for the amount of energy absorbed by the edges of the multiverse.

Potential pompous, know-it-all Nuke Earth scientist quote:

"Of all the energy of the blast, only %fill-in-percentage-here% of it was actually electro-magnetic, and of that portion, only a fraction of the energy was in the correct direction/plane to affect the gate. Thus, the area of effect, is equal to the ...blah, blah, blah. The earthquakes are from this energy bleeding back into the worlds.

The Q comes back with:

"The gate collapsed in less than half a millisecond. Light/EM only travels so fast. Once the gate collapsed, the dimensional effects froze in place. The earthquakes are probably due to differences in mass and substrate material in the exchanged landmasses."

Scientist's objection:

"And what do you base this surmise on, young lady?"

Q says: "Occam's Razor."
matapampamuphoff on May 10th, 2017 09:44 pm (UTC)
Re: Nuclear/dimensional interactions
So you're channeling Q now?

I think the majority of the power of the explosion affected the inbetween, forming the vortex that had trapped that Earth and that One World.

After that--it's been fifty years--the powered gate caused disruptions, pulling worlds it contacted into the whirlpool. And caused earthquakes on all the worlds in the whirlpool. The One World's attempts to open a gate also cause quakes on all worlds.

The powered gate bridging between the two worlds deepest in the whirlpool was well on the way to causing a world-wide massive swap as the pinwheel expanded with every pulse. Good thing Ebsa and Nick destroyed it so quickly.
mbarkermbarker on May 4th, 2017 07:30 am (UTC)
One thing about adding the other rescues -- you could show the other side of the bits and pieces here? In other words, the front of zog's car with his parents, other folks looking for the people who ended up here.
ekuah on May 4th, 2017 08:22 am (UTC)
I'm not sure if it is good idea to chop up the story even more.
Mirror_Mirror is a story from Ebsa's POV. Scrambled is from Nick's POV.
How do snippets from Disco fit in?
Surely, you can return to Ebsa's POV in an epilogue, but I think the main story should stay on whirlpool world.

Since you haven't published the story yet, you can still tune the circumstances of the first nuking.
Maybe that nuke generated copies of the original worlds and set them tumbling on a different course. Like Cannibal world. That would definitely require Disco intervention.
Dimensional gates seem to be finicky things. ;-)
matapampamuphoff on May 6th, 2017 02:09 am (UTC)
It split entire universes. Not just worlds. I'm not going to do a reprise of the Cannibals.
ekuah on May 6th, 2017 11:21 am (UTC)
You universe, your rule.
I just thought, it would be a nice mission for Disco.
Building magnetic centers on the world, to steer it around other worlds, to avoid another cannibal world.
But again.
You universe, your rule.