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11 February 2017 @ 07:18 am
Recall Election  
This is one thing I didn't resolve at the end of _Trouble in Paradise_

Half of me wants Orde to receive a "vote of no confidence" be replaced by a committee for six months until he is either removed or reconfirmed in an Empire-wide off-season, so to speak, Presidential Election.

This gives me a window of opportunity for this committe to decide to go to war with Comet Fall ove the genetic attack. So I can have Rael ordered to assassinate Xen, the powered gates about to be sabotaged as the army masses to cross and so forth.

So would this be useful for the series, or am I just looking from an excuse to make trouble?
(Anonymous) on February 11th, 2017 01:55 pm (UTC)
I wondered if Rior's visit had in fact broken the merge of the One and what the impact of this (if so) would be at this time of vulnerability and change? To answer your question directly, it feels as if this is another non-thinking Oner reaction and as such is repetitive especially in light of the Helios attack showing that they are vulnerable to more than Comet Fall. We know Rael might try but Xen will survive and as he's repeatedly said when push comes to shove it's the Oner's who'll be put down. Are we on an inevitable cascade to this? What could break the cycle? I was wondering about hearing more from the multitude are we actually at a point of evolution/revolution to follow on from Ebsa's points. Especially given that the multitude were not protected from Helios by the Oner elite (riots?). At the moment war is about validating the way of life of a very small percentage of the population. Also illegal orders should be resisted. Sorry this is such a ramble. Hope it's helpful
matapampamuphoff on February 11th, 2017 03:50 pm (UTC)
The recall effort comes up during Trouble, so before a couple of years before _The Last Merge_ with the student kidnappings.

But I like the idea of the Multitude expressing themselves at the ballot box. Orde re-elected in a huge landslide, Army stood down and sent home before Comet Fall felt it necessary to destroy the powered gates.

Then they have to politely ask Disco to release the assassination teamers they left looking like bronzed statues in all sorts of interesting places around Disco. The sniper team on the roof of the Earth Embassy is especially awkward . . .

ekuah on February 11th, 2017 05:18 pm (UTC)
I like your ideas above.

I think a rushed Isolationist action would work best. (that someone different than the warparty is guilty this time) The Isos could try to use the stalemate between the warparty and president Orde, to produce facts that can't be undone (like killing Xen).

Xen could fake his death (like Nighthawk's) to investigate who has ordered the attack. The actionteamers report the 'successful' assassination back and get sacked when they tried to pull out (the new bronze decorations you mentioned)

The news report that the 'vilest Enemy of the Empire' Xen Wolfson aka Endi Dewulfe was finally brought to justice (aka killed) causes serious unrest in the multitude.

In the end 'after the landslide' it could result in much better low level (common public) relations between the empire and comet fall.

You had a story stub where some students from various worlds doing an internship on Embassy or Cometfall. Would love a story from that starting point. Would be great to see their world view shaken like you did in 'Explorers'.
Michawl DolbearMichawl Dolbear on February 12th, 2017 12:31 am (UTC)
I'd better say something, though I may have more later.

The bit with long running side-effects (like mentioning Jiol's twins and saying she married Inso) is the six months suspended from office. This would cast a shadow over every book thereafter.

It also seems implausible as a working bit of constitution law - the various US states don't recall governors that way, just run an election.

This method means that anyone who won without an absolute majority could be suspended at the whim of a losing party who could summon ten million signatures. And then maybe the other losing party could try it.

Now if you think Ebsa's year as a clerk would be enlivened by a recall election that's your decision, but in what way is it advancing the grand plot?

Now maybe an isolationist plus allies plot in the council?

matapampamuphoff on February 12th, 2017 01:57 am (UTC)
The recall would have to be triggered by a super majority. Something big enough and bad enough to get the two largest parties to cooperate, and maybe even bring in a few of the smaller parties. The genetic sabotage would be enough to to carry it.

I may shorten the time frame. 3 months and get it done before Paer and company graduate. Get rid of the primary process, for a recall (or presidential death) triggered off-schedule "emergency election, the parties' leadership can nominate a candidate inside of a week. A month of the Empire Counsel discussing the matter, nominations, three months campaign and vote. I can have the victorious President celebrate by attending his daughter's graduation.

We're talking short story, here, not a major addition to the series.

Or, of course, I may get into it and decide it just won't work.
ekuah on February 12th, 2017 09:11 am (UTC)
"It also seems implausible as a working bit of constitution law - the various US states don't recall governors that way, just run an election."

Two things:
1. This is the "Empire of the One" not the "United States of America" we are talking about.

2. "The Motion of no confidence" is common practice in some countries. And yes, despite all concerns, it works.
(Anonymous) on February 12th, 2017 01:44 pm (UTC)
Yes, and keep in mind that Europe and North America were pretty well depopulated in the nuclear war 1500 years ago. A lot of the governmental structures are built on a wobbly framework of the memories of very young adults who had not been considered to be human, even though they all had reasonably good educations.

Oh, there were expats, and the surviving cultures knew all about it. But they made up a bunch, altered a bunch, those few Prophets who were still alive once the world was unified. And all changed about, probably several times since.
Michawl DolbearMichawl Dolbear on February 13th, 2017 10:16 pm (UTC)
You forgot that the New Prophets were Americans, so more knowledge of Recall than No Confidence.

I'm a Brit so know about No Confidence and it works immediately.

But they would have considered how it would work and rejected some models.
ekuah on February 13th, 2017 10:43 pm (UTC)
Sorry for tell you this, but they were american kids who grew up in a guarded environment, where they weren't even considered as humans. So I'm guessing that their political education wasn't all that great.
matapampamuphoff on February 14th, 2017 02:17 am (UTC)
Think. Nuclear war in the 1960s. A hundred years later you've got a three way power struggle between Greater China, The Islamic Union, and Whatever-I-called-South America.

Drop in 35 Borderline Americans in their early twenties. Kill two of them immediately, so they join up with the Islamics and . . . shake and bake for another 1400 years.

The main unbelievable thing about this series is that so much of the culture/tech/governmental forms/languages/customs are so close to current practices.

I could think up a brand new term, and define it, but a vote of no confidence triggering something variously called a recall election, an emergency election, an off schedule election . . . it'll get the idea across.

It's like the Olympics. I could have called them the One Games or the Prophets' Games. And had to explain what they were and how they worked. But if I call them the Olympics, everyone knows the importance, that the athletes are representing their areas, the whole world stops and watches . . . I just had to tell(make up) the details of a single sport.

Lazy or just an easy way to tell the reader what it is so you can tell the story?
ekuah on February 14th, 2017 11:24 am (UTC)
I second this!
You are doing it right.
It won't help the storytelling if you invent fancy new names for time and length units, for political maneuvers and parties, for clerical buildings and currencies.
It would just confuse the readers and distract them from the story.

Naming it "Vote of non confidence" is a good way to get across the idea of what is happening there.

And honestly, compared to what other political oddities exists in other (real) countries, this is pretty harmless.
(Anonymous) on January 15th, 2018 01:50 am (UTC)
I find the main unbelievable thing is that you call the orange team prophets, I always thought Mohammad was specified as the last prophet in the Koran. This is of course thrid hand information for me. Surely you must have moslem readers to clear this up.
matapampamuphoff on January 15th, 2018 03:48 am (UTC)
The Orange Team have taken over and totally corrupted/reformed Islam.

They arrived and walked into the ambush the Imperial Chinese had set for the Islamic Army. This landed them instantly on the side of the Islamic Union, but it doesn't mean they weren't going to change it in their struggle to survive.