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11 September 2016 @ 02:33 pm
Executive Decision  
Too many Cyborgs. Not so much for reality, as for awkwardness in my solution to the problem. I think I'll cut them back to 50K. That's still enough to challenge a couple of teenage witches, right?
ekuah on September 11th, 2016 08:10 pm (UTC)
Maybe, due to Mirks initial actions, von Cratz and Sokolov can't efficently control all their cyborgs. So they have to put all but 50k (or even less) of them into a hibernation mode.

Imho I think 50k is already an awful lot for an vanguard or bridgehead.
matapampamuphoff on September 11th, 2016 09:00 pm (UTC)
Re: Suggestion
That's my total lack of Military experience showing again. How many do you send if you haven't a clue how much resistance there will be, and how many soldiers do you bring when you're a dozen miles from an isolated city of half a million?

If we postulate that their gates are mechanically derived, with Telie assistance (otherwise Mirk wouldn't have been able to close it) presumably they are, like other world's, expensive, so you don't want too many, or too long.

So . . . a fast scout group . . . that radio or telepaths back that it's a small high tech city, rather isolated, as the rest of the expected (Hired? Recruited? Assigned? Standard?) troops troop through. Perhaps in planned pulses, leaving breaks for return messages to be taken through, and plans adjusted.

So how is von Cratz going to react to that first report?
ekuah on September 11th, 2016 10:48 pm (UTC)
Re: Suggestion
Ok. I'm NOT a military expert.
Usually an invasion is preceded by scouting missions.
These scouting missions would have told von Cratz:
-isolated High Tech world (no gates)
-no (perceivable) military forces
-pacifistic Inhabitants

Invading such a target with millions of troops would have been seen as cowardice and profligacy by his superiors.

Then there is the question, if the troops are his personal army or are these borrowed from the government.
Second question: How many worlds is the DMB trying to conquer at the same time? This will affect if the DMB in a abundance or a shortage of troops.

So anyway you would have to limit your numbers to limit the costs and to enlarge your fame.
(Who is more famous? The two guys who strangled a tiger? Or the ten guys who trampled a kitten?)
But on the other hand you would try get at least enough soldiers with you that you can safely assume your victory.

According to wikipedia operation overlord on D-day consisted of 170.000 landing troops (all five bridgeheads combined).

So you have to decide:
How long did the invasion took place before Mirk plugged the gate?
Was the gate open the full time?
Or did they have a time limit on gate time?
(like 50% on : 50% off)
Then how big are those troop carriers?
Todays average APC can carry between 5 and 25 foot soldiers.
A non armored truck can maybe carry double.
Now, I'm guessing they had also included some tanks or other heavily armored vehicles. These can carry nearly no troops.

So I will using an Amtrac as a base for calculation.
That's 25 soldiers in a 25 feet vehicle that can run up to 45mph.
Running full speed through a narrow gate, where any contact will end in a catastrophe, would be suicide. So halving that speed to 20mph would be sensible. (hey how fast do you run through an open tollbooth entrance?)

Then you to have keep some distance between the vehicles. I would say at least one vehicle length (possible more).

Now we have some basic numbers.
At 20mph a vehicle convoy 20 miles long could pass through a gate in a single hour. That's 105600 feet.
Every 50 feet there is one APC with 25 soldiers. That would be 52800 soldiers for an uninterrupted gate operation lasting for a whole hour.

Then you have to take into according that you have to secure the bridgehead before you can ferry over your troops in masses.

So how long did they have to pour troops into that world?

In the end I have another concern. Supporting personal and supplies usually come at the very end of a convoy. But Mirk threw a rock into their gears of war, before they could finish their transporting operations.

So how did they manage to ferry in cyborg parts, surgeons, cloned embryos etc. etc.?

Edited at 2016-09-11 10:52 pm (UTC)
(Anonymous) on September 11th, 2016 11:25 pm (UTC)
Re: Suggestion
It sort of depends on how brutal you intend to be. Cortez did it with only a couple hundred, using crude gunpowder and swords.

Scout group should be hundreds or less. Probably double that for a base security (stay by the portal to protect your foothold and communications back.) By your logic above, the scout group would get to the city, radio back a report, and then the normal troops would start coming through.

You've said pretty consistently that the powered gates are about the same size, big enough for a special-shaped truck. by the time you make it big enough for a standard USArmy truck, it's bigger than what you've described. The same *volume* of truck might be used, but it needs to be more nearly cylindrical to fit through the gate. The RV style vehicles you described in past books are like that, and could probably carry 25-50 people - less if they are carrying any reasonable amount of gear.

Given that, a 50,000 person line of people would be lots of miles long. Doing it marching on foot even longer.

If the scout group causes the disturbance that Mirk reacts to, then if I read your snippet right, he closes the gate before all the cyborgs get through.

My guess would be between 2000 to 5000 total bodies through the gate, and if you have that many then you need to have Mirk going through a *mass* of people, even if they are fanning out fairly fast.

Every previous description of a powered gate opening shows 20-50 trucks moving through fast (get out of the way of the guy behind you) then the gate closes. Keeping it open for a long(er) continuous time would take vastly more power than you've been willing to make use of.

Your world(s), but if the Cyborgs have such amounts of power available, then they're a different class of enemy. The Cannibal Worlds are so tough because they have a broad front to move the troops through. The Gate bottleneck is (should be) more limiting.

I think it might be less of a problem to have an array of gates to open nearby each other and quickly dump parts of an army - but if so, then the gates are probably gone before Mirk gets there.

Michawl DolbearMichawl Dolbear on September 11th, 2016 11:31 pm (UTC)
Don't forget that you have already established powered gate complexes as huge, expensive and power hungry - did you say 50 GW ?

So unless a conquered world was already doing heavy industrial it couldn't make its own gate for a long time plus even shipping all the components through a limited width date would be a problem, if fixable once the DMB have a standardised design.

Did the DMB originally intend to use host mothers for the gate mentalist project ?

If so the artificial wombs might change their plans though the timing doesn't fit unless the scouts had special instructions.
matapampamuphoff on September 12th, 2016 03:01 am (UTC)
I may cut the cyborg army in half again.

The future gates will depend on the growth and maturation of those frozen embryos. So they'll need the power in twenty years, at the earliest.

Most of the worlds they've conquered have been low tech. Medieval monarchies seems to be a stable point in a civilization's progress, so that's a frequent type they've encountered. Rista's Roman world may be one of the highest tech worlds they tackled so far, and they're winning. Tomorrow's snippet will have a bit more info.

Edited at 2016-09-12 03:57 pm (UTC)